A newly discovered document from March 1991 shows US, UK, French, and German officials discussing a pledge made to Russia that NATO will not expand to Poland and beyond. Its publication by the German magazine Der Spiegel on Friday proves Moscow right and NATO wrong on the matter.
The minutes of a March 6, 1991 meeting in Bonn between political directors of the foreign ministries of the US, UK, France, and Germany contain multiple references to “2+4” talks on German unification in which the West made it “clear” to the Soviet Union that NATO will not expand past the eastern borders of Germany.
“We made it clear to the Soviet Union – in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations – that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,” the document quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz.
“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially,” Seitz added.
A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
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https://alethonews.com/2022/02/18/document-confirms-us-told-russia-nato-wont-expand/
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What were these idiots thinking. Even at that time, they knew Russia was a world dominence threat. But the U.S should get out of the U.N., which has become totally communist controlled and very much anti-freedom (I might also say anti-humanity), and kick this bogus organization off our shores. I am certain President Trump could redevelop the property into something useful!
The west knew the condition of the Soviets, and the USA always underestimated, turned a blind eye to the desire of the countries they handed to Stalin to be free, to govern themselves, to prosper. So as always a few nations decided again the future of all those throwaway countries, and felt no need to include them in the UN, they weren't about to take on the responsibility in case Russia got the appetite for them again.
These countries are very different from the Far East and the Middle East, these are sophisticated nations, well educated, with long histories, national pride, with tremendous self determination, willingness to fight off the oppressors, but because they are tiny they cannot do it on their own. BTW they are tiny by design, the west made sure of that too, they broke them up into small insignificant countries so they can never pose an economic threat to the west.
Once the west made this inconsiderate deal only interested in their own interests, those countries one by one wanted into NATO......and they joined! They wanted the protection so they never again have to suffer as they did under foreign rule. Russia in their poor condition saw no reason to ruffle any feathers, but the Ukrain is an entirely different situation, Russia still feels they own the Ukrain. They are a similar people with similar languages, there are a huge number of Russians living in the Ukrain....leftovers from the Soviet rule. Most of them to this day don't consider themselves Ukrainians, and if Russia goes in these people will fight with Russia, while the Ukrainians will never forget the 7 million Stalin starved, many resorted to cannibalism during those very dark days, they still resent anything Russian!
Unfortunately they are a dictatorship not a democracy, the people have no representation and to both sides they are disposable!
World dominance was the goal originally, but the Soviets were forced to realize it takes a LOT to control nations that hate your ideology. They still tried, they stole everything they could that was of value to them from all the occupied nations, but as usual, eventually even the rich run out of money.
At that point they had to face the harsh truth, when it's over, it's over, and they had to pack up and leave. Going back to the Soviet Union was no prize for any of them, there they had to face the fact that even food was hard to get.
Not much changed in Russia! They are still a very poor country, the higher ups and the mafia stole everything and enjoying it, but the rest are living hard lives. Russia outspent itself to build a huge military, but by themselves they are not a real threat, we can beat them! The problem is, China is salivating to move in and "help" them out. The two joined together is a grave threat.....if our military is weak!
the UN is as useless as was the League of Nations, but more dangerous. They should not be on US soil, actually, they should not be! A friend of mine recently had a dream that the UN building was being blown about in the wind over the Atlantic......and landed on a US navy ship. Perhaps it's a premonition!
You can fully believe, that Biden/Obama will do everything possible to screw up the U.S.!
The question is, "Do four members of NATO constitute a Voting Majority then or now?"
Lynn Bryant DeSpain
Real American patriots support any nation's rights for self determination. We have been admiring Putin for a long time on this site and we were so happy when we found a real American leader in Donald J. Trump, who is at least on par with Putin.
Poland IS a member of NATO since 1999, so are many of the former eastern bloc countries, including north east of Poland. Russia didn't have a problem with all that, but suddenly the Ukrain is a problem. I don't think it has anything to do with NATO membership, it has everything to do with wanting to reoccupy the Ukrain.......if in fact Putin actually does it!
History has shown why russia wants the Ukrain. "FOOD", it was the bread basket for Stalen and the Soviet Union and the russian zars before them. Puten wants it back not only for that reason but more impotantly it is a land that allowed many countries in the past to invade russia. It is tank country and using it could cut south west russia in half. But every country has a right to selve determination including the Ukrain. We should have allowed them into NATO several years ago after the overthrow of the russian puppet was thrown out. Puten would have never risk invasion had we done that and even if he did his nation would be destroyed in the proccess. Besides the agreement was made with the USSR, it no longer a country it is only Russia. No agreement was made with them.
Yes the Ukrain is the bread basket and Russia needs that desperately, yes I feel bad for the Ukrainian people because they are living in a dictatorship. Ukrain is a terribly corrupt country, they put their opposition ito prison, and they also have a huge Russian population who are not loyal to the Ukrain, who sort of got stuck there after the occupation ended. The Ukrain failed to morph into a democracy after the Russians pulled out, they are stuck in the old Soviet/communist mentality.
I'm unclear what invasions of Russia you are referring to that happened through the Ukrain, especially large enough to take over a huge part of Russia.
As sad as all this is for the people of the Ukraine, it is not our business, we have no interest in the Ukrain outside their beautiful Easter eggs, and most certainly isn't worth starting a war with Russia, that could escalate especially with Chinese help.
Russia didn't bother to stop any of their formerly occupied countries from joining NATO even after the above agreement, they are only opposed to the Ukrain doing so, this problem is between Russia and the Ukrain, unless the west feels we suddenly have to have misses and military in the Ukrain on the Russian border to protect the rest of Europe. As much as Putin would love to own europe, I don't think that's on his agenda at the moment, not saying it may not be in the future but there's no indication at this time.
I have to argue about them living in a current dictatorship, it was the Revolution of Dignity that led to the overthrow of Yanukovych and the establishment of a new government. And the only reason they were stuck was because the aforementioned leader withdrew from the west with closer relations with Russia, this action was his downfall. It was the Russians that caused the division in Donbas by annexing Crimea and arming the separatist just like On March 15, 1939, Hitler violated the Munich agreement and moved against the Czechoslovak state. West Czechoslovakia was mostly German and welcomed the Germans. The problem is that this is still Ukrainian land. How would we act if we let Mexico take all of southern Arizona or New Mexico? It is still our land. (no matter how we got it, its ours now).
To clear up your lack of knowledge in military history. The below is provided.
Originally, the state of the Golden Horde was a part of the Mongol Empire. In 1237, Batu Khan, the ruler of the Golden Horde, invaded the Kievan Rus, burning and looting its foremost cities Kiev, Vladimir, Ryazan’, Chernihiv, as well as others. At the time, the Mongol army greatly outnumbered the Russians.
Parts of what would eventually become the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had been waging war against Russian lands since the 15th century. And in 1569, the Commonwealth was formed between Polish and Lithuanian lands, making the resulting union much stronger.
During the Great Northern War (1700 - 1721), the Swedish army invaded the then-Russian territories of Belarus, taking the city of Mogilev. While some Swedes tried to lay siege to Saint Petersburg in 1708 (but the town resisted), Charles XII of Sweden led an army to invade the territories around Smolensk, but ultimately couldn’t take the city, which had always been considered “the key to Moscow”. So Charles and his army headed south to Ukraine.
During the Russian campaign of 1812, over 600 thousand soldiers of the French army, led by Napoleon, invaded the Russian Empire by crossing the Neman river and attacking Riga. His forces then proceeded to Smolensk. The French pushed the Russian army back, burned down Smolensk and marched on to Moscow.
After the Brest treaty of March 1918, which ended Russia’s involvement in WWI, different states started military occupations of various Russian territories. Most notably, Germany had occupied parts of European Russia, Great Britain held Arkhangelsk, Murmansk, Sevastopol, and the Crimea; France and Greece partly controlled Odessa; Italy and Great Britain took part in the invasion of the Russian Far East, and Finland had occupied the territory of Karelia. In total, 14 different states had occupied Russia during this period.
The Germans had started their attack in various directions, occupying Ukraine (then USSR’s territory), sieged Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), took Kursk in the south and Arkhangelsk in the north and Voronezh.
Sooner or later we will have to deal with Russia and China, so this is our business, any country that wants freedom and to be free to seek self determination should be one of our highest priorities. But right now I do not agree with putting our troops on the ground, this is a European problem right now, until it is our problem.
Putin is an ex-KGB officer, there is nothing he would want more than a reconstituted USSR. So yes he would like to own Europe and it is his agenda. As much as China's agenda to own the East pacific region.
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